Comments for Early Modern England

Comment on Calculated Values by RadGradReviewer

RadGradReviewer — Thu, 05 May 2022 04:00:45 +0000

Bill describes the process of how political members used numerical critiques for their arguments. Deringer states that individuals outside political dealings were greatly passionate about the legitimate use of mathematical investigation into politics, as they lacked “access to original government data” (77-78). It struck me that the questioning of institutional affairs came not from the public writ large. For instance, though rejected out of fear of his previous monarchical work for James II, Devenant was a political figure who promoted the idea that the general people should be able to know government ongoings (65). Devenant demonstrates that this push for “numerical thinking” was certainly from a privileged group (5).

Comment on Review of Calculated Values: Finance, Politics, and the Quantitative Age by Vincent Cervone

Vincent Cervone — Thu, 05 May 2022 02:34:19 +0000

Logan,

I agree with Tyler and Matthew (and thus you) that Deringer left some information out that I believe would have made this book much more enjoyable to read. I found that the book was challenging to read, could it be because of the math? it is entirely possible. I do find that the book was decently written and the content that he provided was sufficient even though I didn’t really understand some of it. I was forced to glaze over some of the evidence he provided as it made little sense to me. I’m not a graph and statistics person and this book left me confused at several points.

Comment on Review of Calculated Values: Finance, Politics, and the Quantitative Age by Anna Ciambotti

Anna Ciambotti — Thu, 05 May 2022 02:09:17 +0000

Hello!

I very much agree that this book was incredibly difficult to get through. It stinks that he had to write a book about math because it does automatically doom people not to like it. I am curious to see people’s opinions in our class who don’t mind the math, and whether they thought this was a well-written book or not. Even though he did include some, maybe more examples with common people interacting with numbers would have been helpful?

Comment on Calculated Values by Anna Ciambotti

Anna Ciambotti — Thu, 05 May 2022 02:06:13 +0000

Hello!

I agree with Bill that his use of sources to explain his argument was impressive. He was able to make the argument interesting enough but still lost me at some parts. (As someone who does not like numbers this is not surprising). I do wish he would have stated some other reasons why calculations seemed to have gained credibility other than politics.

Comment on Review of Calculated Values: Finance, Politics, and the Quantitative Age by Tyler Thompson

Tyler Thompson — Thu, 05 May 2022 02:01:13 +0000

Logan

I agree with your assessment that Deringer did leave some information out during the middle chapters. I would have loved to see how the two-party system developed in England/Britain in the third chapter. Going into the two-party system might have been outside of his focus in this book, but at least a couple of paragraphs that give a brief overview would have been helpful. However, I did find this book to be very insightful and left me wanting to read more. His use of numbers and math could be overwhelming at some points but I did enjoy the graphs and tables. I also enjoyed that he mixed in some real-world events that vindicated some financial thinkers at the time. Overall, Calculated Values is a good book that has strong points and weak points. I believe that the strong points outweigh the bad and Deringer writes a compelling book and argument.

Comment on Calculated Values by Edward Kirsch

Edward Kirsch — Thu, 05 May 2022 00:31:31 +0000

Bill’s review is cogent and well written. Bill put his finger on Deringer’s core idea that was most surprising to me: “To put it bluntly: Britons did not come to fight with numbers in the eighteenth century because numbers were already believed to be trustworthy and authoritative; numbers came to be seen as trustworthy and authoritative because Britons fought with them.”” I also concur with Bill’s conclusion that Deringer’s argument is extremely well crafted but gives me a sense that it is too mono-casual. I suspect there were other factors that played an important role in the change in “civic epistemology” that Deringer ably describes.

Comment on Review of Calculated Values: Finance, Politics, and the Quantitative Age by Matthew Inman

Matthew Inman — Wed, 04 May 2022 12:32:46 +0000

Logan – I agree with your assessment that there seems to be a tantalizing piece missing from this book. Deringer makes the case very well that calculation is always a flexible art and that numbers can justify opposing political positions. He does an apt job of explaining why politicians took to using calculations to support their positions on policies. But I was really hoping to learn how numbers/calculation came to be so convincing to the general public, particularly when just a little bit of critical thinking would help people approach numbers with more skepticism. I don’t mean to suggest that I’m not taken in by number arguments, in fact, I think I’m willing to accept number arguments that align with my preconceptions. And I wanted this book to tell me why that is. That’s clearly not the book Deringer was writing, and I really shouldn’t knock him for not writing the book I wanted.

Comment on Accidents and Violent Death- Craig Spence by Vincent Cervone

Vincent Cervone — Thu, 28 Apr 2022 13:53:11 +0000

Emily, when I saw this book on the syllabus at the beginning of the year, I was excited about it (I know I shouldn’t have been but I was) and after reading Spence’s book; I can say that I wasn’t let down. At points, the book got pretty dark but I can say that I enjoyed reading it, I was able to finish it in less sittings then previous books (such as the ship book) and I can recall details and passages easier. I also agree with your assessment that this fits into the historiography but a different way then some of the books that we’ve read so far this semester. Although I am personally not a fan of data, I can see why Spence structured the book this way and it adds to an argument that I was able to keep track of throughout the reading process.

Comment on Accidents and Violent Deaths in Early Modern London by RadGradReviewer

RadGradReviewer — Thu, 28 Apr 2022 03:26:51 +0000

I found it convincing when the author defends the choice to continue the use of “empirical data.” Critics oppose the use of quantified conclusions since it imposes a current framework onto a past subject (11). Spence defends his use of this methodology by stating that it is crucial to use whatever sources available to understand a semblance of “frequency” (11). The frequency allows historians to better understand how representative an event, idea, or other past feature is of the more general reality. The empirical data provide Spence with a basic understanding of reality, which helps him better analyze the people’s perceptions of these accidents (11). For instance, he asserts that individuals thought fatal accidents in London were more common than what truly happened (95). He shows that pairing cultural realities with quantitative findings helped bolster this methodology.

Comment on Accidents and Violent Deaths in Early Modern London by Edward Kirsch

Edward Kirsch — Thu, 28 Apr 2022 00:32:01 +0000

Anna comments that: “Chapter 9 especially helped to pull the culture of Early Modern England into what could have otherwise been a very quantitative book.” I concur and found that was the aspect of the book that resonated the most with me. I found the progression from the empirical data captured in the Bills of Mortality, “followed by the narrative elaboration of at least more spectacular events through pamphlet publication,” followed again at the outset of the 1700s by the “explosion in metropolitan newsprint” and how this resulted in a socially constructed sense of the city as a “dystopian cauldron of death and disorder” fascinating. (242) Spence also does a great job of describing how Bills of Mortality were developed, their usefulness, and the main participants in the process such as the searchers and parish clerks. (Chapters 1-2) Spence’s focus on “how things seemed to contemporaries” in the latter chapters was well done. He used Figures to great effect to illustrate his points including especially the Hogarth engravings (Figures 9.7 and 9.8), but also Figure 9.1 regarding Hail. (Much better than the use of maps in Islands book.) The persistence of providential interpretation of accidents reminded me of the thinking of Lady Ranelagh. The role of various medical providers was also interesting in chapter 7 and prompted connections to the Lady Ranelagh book as well.